Austrian Economics Forum: livid -

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13-June 08
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Jun 18 2008 12:27 AM

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Bogs Dan

   livid

  1. "Socialist countries grow quickly"

    14 Jun 2008

    QUOTE(Inquisitor @ Jun 14 2008, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    China' s also a mixed economy, that's constantly moving away from a command economy...


    It is rather looking for a right balance between central economy and capitalism, than simply "moving away from command economy".

    Capitalism is another extreme, just like completely planned central economy. Both have pros and cons; and i believe that it is quite possible to take good parts from both and leave out the rest.
  2. "Socialist countries grow quickly"

    14 Jun 2008

    QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 14 2008, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    also yields clear mismatch between supply and demand for almost all goods and services in the economy. Some goods that are not demanded at all are produced, while other highly-demanded goods are not produced.


    That is exactly the case if you are looking at each republic of Soviet Union separately; but USSR's economy as a whole was planned according to what each and every republic could produce and consume. Say, Geaorgia had to pursue certain types of agriculture (tea for instance) and another republic would specialize in different agricultural goods. So although Georgia wouldn't consume all the tea it produced, that tea would be distributed in other places in USSR; and in exchange Georgia would recieve grain and whatnot. Same goes to all sorts of industrial production: one piece of a certain machinery could be produced in Georgia, another somewhere nearby moscow, and all of it would be assembled in kazakhstan. Moreover, labour was all planned out as well so that trained specialists would be guaranteed a job but only where they were needed.

    I guess it was an attempt to achieve higher efficiency via specialization. That is local regions specialised to achieve economies of scale, so that the Soviet Union as a whole (single entity) could achieve economies of scope.

    Also I've got to mention that this sort of planned economy virtually left no space for speculation, which is good in my opinion.


    QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 14 2008, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    When central planning is abandoned system explodes and the decline in GDP is huge. Real life example of this was Soviet Union. FSU countries experienced 10-30% decline in GDPs. Check out this case.


    So when the Soviet Union collapsed, it became free-for-all despite the fact that, at that time, former soviet republics depended (and probably still do depend on) that interconnection among each other.

    BTW, the article you cite does note that "Over-specialization" , which in my opinion is sort of silly because Georgia suffered from that "Over-specialization" only after it abandoned USSR.

    Of course there are cons as well. Imagine being told were to work or what to produce... But don't markets do pretty much the same? And again, you could go to any school for free in the Soviet Union....

    Nevertheless, the entire concept of planned economy is pretty solid.


  3. Clearly biased teaching- very annoying

    13 Jun 2008

    Hey i was thinking that most discussions involve keynesian, neoclassical and monetarist schools. In 4 years of studying economics, my profs never even mentioned any economists or economic works that were not related to these 3 three schools (except for Marx once in a while). Austrian economics and the likes also imply consumerism.

    But there are economists that don't see consumerism as a legitimate driving force of the economy. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
  4. So friggin confused about the calculation problem

    13 Jun 2008

    QUOTE(Inquisitor @ Apr 26 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Yep, and so if from the POV of the participants they believe socialism will yield prosperity and thus opt for it, they are deluded.


    That' s not an argument... It's barely a point of view
  5. So friggin confused about the calculation problem

    13 Jun 2008

    QUOTE(claudius @ Apr 24 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    If I'm correct, it says that without prices it is impossible to allocate capital to those who are best at employing it.


    So far so good

    QUOTE(claudius @ Apr 24 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    When a socialist country nationalizes industries, this is par excellence a market without prices and so without calculation.


    There are still prices in socialist societies. I am not sure how you got to that conclusion.

    QUOTE(claudius @ Apr 24 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I need not complete the syllogism -->isn't the calculation argument escaped by saying that people wouldn't have socialized the economy if they didn't value socializism highly on the margin? Hence all forced prices in socialism are just as legitimate as market prices?


    yepp, pretty much, depending on your interpretation of opportunity cost. Say, do you miss out if you hang out with your friends for a couple hours instead of working for $20/hour?

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